Achilleus’ scene in Odyssey 11 and its (lack of) connection to the Iliad


Most of them interpret it the same way you do, as a contradiction of the Iliad. Lucian’s Dialogues of the dead has Antilochos criticising Achilleus for his ‘ignoble and unworthy’ words (Dialogue of Achilleus and Antilochos, opening). Stobaios, Florilegium 4.52.2 lists the lines under the heading ‘praise of life’

But quite often, ancient readers looked at the passage in quite a different way from how a modern person is likely to. Here’s a scholion (ancient gloss) on Odyssey 11.489:
How is it that the poet shows Achilles as a lover of life like this, when he previously chose to live a short time with glory? Either Achilles says these things to console Odysseus for his misfortune; or because, seeing the idleness of the dead, he is disgusted at their mode of existence.
Plato’s Republic, by contrast, refuses to interpret it in light of the Iliad. There, Sokrates actually rejects the passage from his ideal state, in Republic 386c (book 3, opening): he argues that poetry that dispraises the state of being dead is impious and should be expunged.

When he comes back to it again in Republic 516d (near the start of book 7), the symbolism is flipped around: that’s part of the discussion of Plato’s cave. And there, Sokrates reads being among the shades as remaining imprisoned within the cave (like a normal person), and being among the living as escaping the cave (like a philosopher).

Modern readers have adopted a wide variety of approaches to the passage, but most of them also read it against the Iliad: that is, they take the position that the Achilleus of Odyssey 11 is the same character as the Achilleus of Iliad 9, and that implies that Odyssey 11 is re-writing the ‘earlier’ depiction in one way or another.
In terms of the meaning of Odyssey 11 in its own context, we’ve got no basis for saying that the scene is a retrospective on the Iliad. Reading it as if Achilleus has continuity between the Iliad and Odyssey is like interpreting The Batman (2022) as if it’s a sequel to Adam West’s Batman.

This isn’t a scene in the Iliad, it’s a scene in the Odyssey. It isn’t Achilleus’ epic, it’s Odysseus’. And that means the scene isn’t trying to say something about Achilleus, it’s saying something about Odysseus.

In the Odyssey, we’ve already seen Odysseus expressing a death-wish several times, at 5.306-312 and 10.49-58, and then again in his speech to Achilleus’ ghost immediately before the ‘I’d rather be alive’ speech, at 11.481-486. The scene offers two lessons to Odysseus:
It’s important to stay alive even when you can’t see hope for the future.
If your family is safe and carrying on, it’s OK to be dead: death is a natural part of the continuity from one generation to the next.
The first point there is the one made by Achilleus in the initial part of the scene, where he says ‘I’d rather be alive’. A famous essay by Jean-Pierre Vernant, ‘Death with two faces’ (originally ‘Mort grecque, mort à deux faces’, 1981) gives that interpretation of the lines, arguing that the passage is a celebration of life rather than a statement about death.

The second point is usually missed, including by professional scholars, who almost always refuse to read the scene as if it carries on past line 491. It does, in fact, carry on for another 49 lines, and it has a very different message about death. But since the rest of the scene isn’t about Achilleus himself, the inclination to read it as if it’s a retrospective on the Iliad disappears after line 491.

The rest of the scene has Achilleus ask Odysseus for news of his family-members who are still alive. Odysseus accordingly tells him about the accomplishments of Achilleus’ son, Neoptolemos, and in the wake of that, Achilleus is transfigured: he departs
taking long strids across the asphodel meadow,
joyful because I told him of his outstanding son.
‘I’d rather be alive’, earlier on, is just setting up these lines. They’re bitter words, full of grief and anger. The lines where he departs are the pay-off. This isn’t a case of Odysseus cheering up Achilleus’ mood, it’s a transformation of his situation.

Compare the lines where Teiresias’ ghost foretells Odysseus’ death (11.134-137):
And your own death: away from the sea,
without violence, that’s just how it will come. It will slay you
when you’re worn down by comfy old age. Around you your people
will be blessed. These are sure things I’m telling you.


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